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BANG FOR THE BITE
Appreciation for nature is crucial to a child's upbringing... and connecting with nature helps us adults stay off the Zoloft.
COCKTAIL FACT
A zoo in Seattle benefited when an electronics shop advertising "stereos for 299 bananas" actually had 30-some customers take 'em up on the deal.
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home › tip library › At The Zoo
Ever seen a kid's face when s/he hears a lion roar?
The Bite
That face alone is worth the price of admission at your local zoo. But even better, bringing kids to the zoo gives 'em an appreciation for the environment.The Benefits
- Get connected. OK, so a cage isn't an animal's natural habitat, but a 2006 study found that "visitors feel they experience a stronger connection to nature as a result of their visit."
- Zoos let us (and zoologists) learn about animals up close, helping us understand how we can preserve them and their habitat.
- Fun family outing.
- A wee bit more affordable than an African safari.
Personally Speaking
Jen's love for animals began when a hot zookeeper, ironically named "Turtle", explained all about the gorillas at the Atlanta zoo when she was a young teen.Wanna Try?
- Association of Zoos and Aquariums - find a zoo that meets strict animal care and conservation standards near you.
- Animal: The Definitive Visual Guide to the World's Wildlife - if you're opposed to zoos (as some of us are) then watch the Nature Channel and read this book to your tykes ($17).
- Born Free - this 1965 movie about 2 lions born in captivity is the best. Appropriate for all ages. Trust us. Get it.
Mar 12,2007
Sponsor
All editorial suggestions in this tip are the result of testing and a preference for the tip topic. No advertiser has paid to have its company referenced in the tip. For more information, please read our Editorial Policy.
Mixed Feelings on Zoos
I will admit something that I probably shouldn't: I cry when I see animals being hurt, but not humans.
Now that is off my chest, I will confess something else: I never had a crush on the zoo keeper as the tip said. Heather was just in a snarky mood and wanted to pretend that I like men that shovel shitakes.
Here's the rub: zoos do give children an experience with extreme forms of nature, and therefore hopefully an appreciation for it. But my god I do hate the look in the apes' eyes as they sit behind the glass. They are so FREAKING smart and we have them caged like a gold fish? I even shed a little tear for fish in small bowls too.
So I don't know ... where would a kid from the Bronx be able to see nature if not a zoo? And would it be fair to take that away from them? BITERS sound off.. I really don't know where I stand on this. Thanks for your thoughts. - JB
Biter Comments...
Really want to get in to the spirit of the movie Born Free as suggested in this bite? Check out the group, the Born Free Foundation, founded 20+ years ago by the stars of that movie, dedicated to helping wild animals stay and thrive in the wild. Their US office opened a few years ago: www.bornfreeusa.org.
I can't go to zoos.
And you're not the only one who feels a stronger pull towards animal abuse/neglect than the human situation. I'm the same way and some people are apalled when I tell them that. They think I'm "cold." But how can you argue with the way you naturally feel and what you're drawn to?
Nothing hits me harder than a story about animal abuse/neglect in the news. I will actually lose sleep over it, and that doesn't happen with any other issue. This weekend I caught an ASPCA commercial that featured close-ups of dogs & cats in cages while the Sarah McLachlan song "Arms of the Angel" played in the background - I cried for two hours...
I'm seconding Kates post.
You've have two posts in a row now promoting animal abuse and I'm really bothered by this.
I never went to a zoo to feel a closer connection to animals as a kid. I hiked outside and volunteered at an animal shelter. I did things that were pro-active for animals, not detrimental.
Zoos are cruel and should be compared to prisons!
Get your act together with these tips Ideal Bite!!
I totally agree with the last few comments and feel so disappointed and angry with this kind of insensitivity that I don't want to receive ideal bite anymore, unless there is some kind of retraction. You people need to learn to mean what you advertise.
So what if a kid is amazed by hearing a lion roar, that doesn't change the fact that a caged lion only roars out of frustration and pain.
Anne Barr
Colombia
South America
Yes, "Born Free" is a great movie, but I highly recommend "Two Brothers" for some of the most adorable animal filming I've ever seen, plus an excellent message regarding the dwindling population of tigers & the need for preservation.
Enjoy!
I agree with Anne Barr's comment 100%. I thought maybe Ideal Bite would wise up after Friday's suggestion of Urban Mushing, which generated a great deal of upset among Biters. But you start off Monday with ZOOS? You've got to be kidding me.
I'm unsubscribing today. This is just some wannabe green hipster website. No substance. I suggest others go to Treehugger.com from now on, it's much more thoughtful.
I too was surprised to see a recommendation for zoos in Ideal Bite. Especially when we have a beautiful option for teaching kids about nature - our parks and wildlife refuges. Even NY has parks! Granted, you don't get to see the variety of animals that you'd see at a zoo, but kids can see pictures and learn about animals in their natural habitat online or in books. I can't imagine kids get the right idea about "wild"life from seeing the animals in cages.
I did volunteer at a zoo once...one that had a more "natural" environment and less cages... and the zoos are trying to do the right thing with preservation of species... but they need to keep it at that, and take these poor animals off display behind glass and bars, like criminals.
I am totally agreeing with others that have posted this morning.
NO MORE ANIMAL ABUSE MESSAGES.
if you are lacking for tips, repeat some old ones.
one more insensitive bite about animals, and i'm off this list too!
other suggestions:
take your kids to a no-kill animal shelter.
volunteer at a park.
read a book!
there are other ways to learn about the wild.
There are some good zoos. There are some species alive in zoos, and reproducing, that are very rare in the wild. I think zoos like that have a place in our lives.
I've read Gerald Durrell, who was a naturalist, who founded a zoo on the Isle of Jersey (UK). His stories of the animals are incredible. He also said (I'm paraphrasing and this is from memory) that animals have natural territorial limits, so good zoos (notice I'm saying good, not all) actually help the animal feel more secure with a good-sized territory.
I do think there is a place for zoos, to preserve and breed animals in a good setting. But they have to be good zoos, nature parklike. I'm not against people being able to see the animals, but give the animals a good home-like territory.
I think too many of us grew up seeing the Victorian equivalent of a zoo, with the cages and the concrete. Those are the zoos that need to go. The zoos that need to stay are the ones who treat the animals well, who give the chimps/large apes things to occupy themselves with, who give the lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) habitats that approximate what they would have in the wild, and have a breeding program.
Many zoos now have or participate in breeding programs to reintroduce species to their native habitats.
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some zoos are worth keeping around.
This "tip" is an abomination. SHAME on you IdealBite. To see this here, of all places, is very disappointing. We visit a great animal rehab center for wild birds or a farm santuary - no zoos! Please, no more "tips" like these.
I agree that in very select circumstances zoos do some good work on research but the majority of them are just prisons.
Please don't encourage people to stare at caged animals.
Up until now I have really enjoyed my ideal bite emails, but getting this one today turned my stomach. You are not the kind of group I can support and not who I thought you were. Really what next, will you suggest that circuses are a great place to take kids too?
How in the world can you support zoos as a great place to educate kids? What does this teach them? The only thing I feel it teaches them is that we are some how superior to animals and have the right to control and imprison them. I don’t care if the animals receive the best care in the world, they are still living in a prison and in an environment that causes them to go insane with boredom and frustration.
I have heard first hand from a vet who worked for 13 years at the National Zoo in Washington DC, one of the supposedly greatest zoos in the county. She personally witnessed the head vet abuse and torture animals for his 20 plus years at the zoo. The only reason she stayed at the zoo was so she could get him forced out of his position. The stories she shared with me were extremely disturbing. If rampant animal abuse is occurring at the National Zoo, I can only imagine the atrocities that are occurring in other zoos across the county.
You can’t take back the daily bite you sent out today, but if you don’t rescind your suggestion in tomorrow’s bite and with it send out some REAL information about zoos, you will lose me and all of my friends and family as subscribers.
I agree with Catherine, some zoos do have a place in our society.
as for the dog mushing tip, I found it sacrastic. I never thought ideal bite was actually telling us to go out and buy those crazy dog scooter things. although environmental activism can be a serious topic, it doesnt mean ideal cant have some fun now and then.
Ok, just a follow-up here to my previous post. I checked out the non profit group, Association of Zoos and Aquariums, that you suggested in your bite to find a "responsible" zoo. Not only is the National Zoo on their list which makes the whole association unreliable in my opinion, but the Board of Directors is made up of Presidents, Directors, etc. from ZOOS! Are you kidding. I am sure they are completely unbiased in their findings - yeah right! What a joke.
I am so glad there are already so many post re: how shocked so many of us were to read a zoo-advertising "bite"... Lately, with your promotion of wool, and the dog mushing, etc... I have been questioning the ethics/direction of the bites, which I otherwise thought were a really great, fun resource. I've always promoted the bites in my own newsletters, but now I don't even want to stay subscribed myself. Worldwatch and the U.N. have both published reports about how animal use/abuse (mostly animal agriculture) is slaughtering the environment. Alice Walker said: “The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men.” Ghandi said: “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ...Apparantly you guys feel that cages are okay. Also, if you were/are really torn on the issue... WHY would you tell people to take their kids to zoos??
PLEASE rethink this & send tomorrow's bite out taking back today's...
Thanks.
Since I'm a Gemini with ADD, I'm switching to another subject entirely. I am a quilter and would love to make my quilts from organic fabrics. The only site I have found on the web that sells organics by the yard charges $20@yard with a minimum order of 10 yards. Any suggestions for a less expensive source, anyone?
Lois
Like the others, I was absolutely stunned to see the zoo suggestion. My husband already knows that we won't be taking our future kid to the zoo.
I love my daily bite because I learn so much. In fact, just this a.m. I ordered rechargeable batteries for the first time because of a tip.
But today when I read the bite, my heart sank.
I used to be a zoo lover because I'm an animal lover. But now that I know more about how animals are treated before they get there, while they're there, and after they "leave," I cannot go to a zoo with a clear conscience. And I'm very surprised that Ideal Bite would promote these prisons.
What you see in the zoos doesn't tell half the story. Not only do they suffer from confinement but they also suffer from poor medical care and abuse. How do you think the animals get to the zoos? They're torn from their families and their communities. They endure miserable transport, and when they stop making money for the zoos, they can be sold to "canned hunt" facilities, where "hunters" can shoot them close range in confinement.
If you want children to appreciate nature, take them to animal sanctuaries, where the animals are no longer money-makers but individuals with a safe future. Take kids to preserves and parks where they can see animals in their natural habitat. But there is no place for zoos in an evolved society. And there is certainly no place for promotion of such places in a web service that supposedly cares about the non-human inhabitants of the earth.
Of course zoos are not real nature; they can be the beginning of a kid's connection with nature, however. And if that doesn't happen, we are not gonna HAVE a planet with ANY animals, including us. There have always been people who sacrifice themselves (time, energy, even their life) for the good of others. I would like to believe the zoo animals somehow are those who are there to help. This is how Native Americans hunt; they ask for the animal who would choose to feed them to step forth. Respect is a huge part of this process, and we certainly need to be as "clean" as possible in terms of where zoo animals originate, care, etc.
Thanks for listening. I suspect these thoughts will infuriate some people, but if you are not a total vegan..think about THAT. And who's to say your carrot isn't screaming as you pull it from the ground?
I have been reading most of the tips and was withholding judgment about the true usefulness of ideal bite. but this tip today demonstrated nothing more than the complete ignorance and insensitvity of the writers about the true nature of the zoos. and to think people may be reading this Zoo Bite and being influenced to go to zoos because gosh, it gives us a "connection" to nature when we see animals who were captured or born into captivity living their lives in a way that is completely counterintuitive to their desires, instincts, and nature.
this tip was so horrifying and ill-informed, i unsubscribed.
i second everyone else's suggestion: green urban spaces, videos, trips to actual nature when possible, books, imagination. animals belong in nature to live out their lives to the best of their ability--they are not our tools to stare at.
Jacqueline-
Are you JOKING?
The animals at zoos have been captured, they didn't "step forward" to help us. You a taking a very self-rightous/ self-centered view point. I bet you're one of those people who think humans are the "top of the food chain." Unfortunately NOT, we have weaknesses just like other animals. Just because we are curious and have the ability to take advantage of weaker creatures, does NOT give us the right to exploit others. Look at what hapened to the Native Americans, colonized, enslaved and exploited. You think that was right?
Don't start taking jabs at Vegans either, you know perfectly well that carrots don't have any sensory organs or nerves. They may be living and complete a life cycle, but they don't suffer or feel pain as animals do.
I don't see people lining up to go to prison or be enslaved, do you?
You're right on one thing, respect IS part of living with animals, but zoos don't do that. People can't even take care of their own pets, what makes you think life in a zoo is any better.
I'm writing to you from Africa. So, yes, I'm one of the lucky ones who has the opportunity to see animals in their natural habitats. And I agree with most of you who object to zoos, although I do see their place in the cases of taking in exotic pets and circus animals that some human animals seem to think they had the right to "own" in the first place (until they get bored with them).
My reason for writing, however, is that I really need to make an important point - one of the biggest causes of decreasing numbers of wild animals in some parts of my amazing continent is poaching. And one of the main destinations for poached animals (from African Gray Parrots to Chimpanzees)? Zoos! And not exclusively zoos in "uncivilized" countries as some people might think, but also in Europe and the US. Even some animals that aren't poached end up in your zoos - that why CITES issues permits to trade in them. Please, stop thinking it's ok to have animals in cages in the interests of education (with the exception of the cases I mention above). It's not. You want an education? Watch the Discovery channel. Or visit parks and other natural areas you have left like the people above suggest. Encourage people to conserve the remaining natural habitats we have left and please leave the animals there.
Although I don't agree that zoos are a component of ensuring the sustainable use of our natural resources, I will not unsubscribe from Ideal Bite. I think we have more to gain by expressing our different opinions and learning from each other.
Thanks for you time.
People, lets please be aware that we all live in an imperfect world. In a perfect world everyone would be able to take their children on nature hikes and African safaries to teach them respect and compassion for nature and connection with the environment. But this is an imperfect world, and I think that Ideal Bite realizes that. Posts about humane wool, free-range chickens, etc is a concession to the fact that people are not willing to give everything up in order to be green. But we can be GREENER in our everyday lives by using alternatives.
Perhaps some, or even possibly most, zoos are not the bastions of animal humanity they should be, perhaps they should do more to ensure the well-being of the animals in their care. So should we eliminate zoos entirely? Should we remove the one place that an inner-city kid can possibly connect with nature because we disagree with some of their practices? Here's a better idea, why not use our voices and our voting dollars to encourage congress to enact legislation to improve zoos across the country? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Overall, zoos do much more good than harm.
I have to say that Jacqueline was very ignorant and unfair in using her posting space to take a jab at the vegan lifestyle. I'm not a vegan but I'm a vegetarian and I have high respect for vegans because of the sacrifices they make.
Last I checked, carrots don't have brains. But I assume you do, Jacqueline, so maybe you should start using yours...
the native american excuse that they "thank" the animal before killing them is weak. I bet if I killed someone (but thanked them first!)I'd probably still go to jail...)
Zoos are no good for animals or people. I do not believe that keeping animals in cages teaches people to appreciate them. It teaches them that it's o.k. to expolite animals in the name of "teaching children." What we should be teaching them is respect, kindness and preservation of animal habitats so that they can live safely IN THE WILD. It's ironic that this is today's bite b/c at 11:00 today (PT) it's being announced at the L.A. Zoo that Ruby the elephant is being released to an elephant sanctuary - a victory that is long overdue. More and more zoos are getting rid of their elephant exhibits b/c they are realizing that it's cruel to keep them in such small spaces. I hope everyone who reads this chooses to support animal sanctuaries rather than zoos.
Sigh. NOT taking potshots at vegans. Have utmost respect for (Secret Life of Plants should be required reading tho). What I was trying to say is, (thank you, Lois, for asking for moderation instead of reactive foaming at the mouth) if you do ANYTHING to harm animals why not start there as well as finding alternatives to zoos? Vegans don't harm and are the ONLY folks who can comment on animal issues w/ NO degree of hypocrisy. Bless them.Are we clear now?
Why are people not reading what was written today? Have you taught in inner-city schools? I have. The zoo is as close as those kids are gonna get unless y'all start organizing carpools and day trips to sanctuaries. Which I, for one would LOVE to see -- that level of caring and involvement.
The ultimate arrogance is to think we know what goes on in the minds of others. We DO NOT know the soul of an animal, or a species. What if the group-soul of some endangered species inspired some lowly human to come up with the Species Survival Act? I seriously doubt we are a superior species in ANY way, but we still have to make use of what we were given, which is the ability to think about thoughts. Hopefully a different thought will inspire a "HMMMM.." instead of outraged screeching. My ancestors, who asked the animals for help and received it, did NOT harm the planet, so it is (hopefully) not just a rationalization to think we can all help each other. It's a lifestyle, one which Anglos have not mastered too well...yet. Always hope!
IF there are (in your lucky piece of the world) alternatives to zoos...YEA!USE EM!!! UNTIL there are alternatives to zoos..PLEASE do what you can to lobby for good conditions in every respect. WHEN there are alternatives to zoos (and I assume y'all are helping with this)- GREAT!
Until then, sorry, the TV is not the same as a real animal. Thank you, Biters, for mentioning this. Boy, today, you really Bit Off a Chunk, didn't ya!
Jacqueline, because you don't know the soul of an animal, how can you have the arrogance to even presume an animal would ever "step forward" to be killed for your ancestors? That goes against the very laws of nature. We were built to want to survive and evolved as such.
Your statement that you "seriously doubt we are a superior species" betrays your speciesist views. Could you imagine ever saying, "I seriously doubt that men are superior"? Is there room for doubt?
I'm vegan but it doesn't take a vegan to know that ripping animals from their families and forcing them to endure confinement, abuse, and isolation is wrong.
check out this letter, and the website.
http://www.elephants.com/pdf/TAOS%20response.pdf
One Ideal Bite commenter suggested the following (and others posted similar thoughts), and I wanted to respectfully respond:
"There are some good zoos."
I wish that were the case but I just don't think that's possible. We can never approximate the kind of space and freedom an animal will have in the wild. We can’t give them the kind of enrichment they’d choose themselves. We can’t, in good conscience, take away their free will. But I haven't been to many zoos--for those of you who think there are good zoos, which come to mind?
"There are some species alive in zoos, and reproducing, that are very rare in the wild."
Indeed, there are some species that are rare in the wild--and that is why the focus must be on maintaining and reclaiming wild spaces--not captive breeding. Why no breeding?
Here’s why: Captive breeding programs are notoriously unsuccessful, and it is extremely hard to "reintroduce" animals into a wild setting--particularly if there is diminishing habitat to support them.
the writer mentioned that animals have territory--why yes, they do have territory and what that means is when you go and introduce your captive lion to a new wild territory--what a struggle for survival there is then--the animals that have lived there vs the newcomer. fun!
Therefore all we are doing with these nice-sounding breeding programs is breeding animals (who are forced to breed, by the way—they don’t “pick” their mate) so we can look at them (and often when we are done looking they get sent to circuses and traded among zoos). There isn't that much reintroduction into the wild.
"I’ve read Gerald Durrell, who was a naturalist, who founded a zoo on the Isle of Jersey (UK). His stories of the animals are incredible. He also said (I’m paraphrasing and this is from memory) that animals have natural territorial limits, so good zoos (notice I’m saying good, not all) actually help the animal feel more secure with a good-sized territory."
I love Mr. Durrell's writing, and it is true animals have territories--but a.) they choose them (not us) and b.) as i said above, we can't ever give them the space they need--nor the enrichment of an ever-changing natural environment. And to me, it seems a bit self-congratulatory—ahh, see I TOOK you but here, I’m GIVING you some space so you feel more secure in this strange place.
"I do think there is a place for zoos, to preserve and breed animals in a good setting."
But what exactly, are we really preserving? what we need to preserve (ie not develop) are natural spaces. I rehabilitate injured wildlife, and when they are feeling better, they become incredibly restless. If kept too long in a cage, they throw themselves against it until they die. Maybe they are safe from predators, but they sure don’t seem happy. I need to respect that, and heal them and FREE them. It is not fair to preserve them in a setting they did not choose and can’t possibly approximate where they came from. Even itty bitty cottontail rabbits roam over acres of land.
"I think too many of us grew up seeing the Victorian equivalent of a zoo, with the cages and the concrete."
it's still too much like that. read about the elephants at www.elephants.com to learn more about concrete-based injuries.
"Many zoos now have or participate in breeding programs to reintroduce species to their native habitats."
again, i am mystified by the breeding. why, really, do we want to breed? do we want more animals in captivity? or do we want to overpopulate wild spaces? we can’t talk about diminishing wild space AND breeding in the same breath.
"Those are the zoos that need to go. The zoos that need to stay are the ones who treat the animals well, who give the chimps/large apes things to occupy themselves with, who give the lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) habitats that approximate what they would have in the wild…."
but is “approximate” good enough? does the animal get to approve its new habitat? it’s new cage-mates, if any? what if the chimp doesn't want what it's given? can it go out in search of something else? enrichment is a complext process--i doubt many of us here are in a position to assess such programs--we HOPE they are good--but are they?
in the end, no matter how plush, it's still captivity against an animal's will. we take away their social groups, their territory, their enrichment, their free will--they are now totally dependent. it is as if you, dear reader, were given a lovely apartment, but could never leave. picture this a moment. people bring you food--maybe you like it, maybe you don't. people bring you magazines--oh, you wanted a book? sorry. in the meantime, ENJOY your magazine, i brought you this magazine because i care about you. i want you to be happy. I have approximated a nice life for you, have i not? ooh, and here is your new husband! I hope you like him too because we’re going to make you have babies together. NO you can't leave. but please, please be happy here, every single day—365 days a year, in this lovely, lovely apartment (nice view, eh?). oh for how long? well, you’re here, um, until you die. Oh, are you saying something? I am sorry, we don’t speak the same language. I cannot understand you. You’re so cute. Goodbye. Be happy.
to the person who said that they cried after they saw that ASPCA ad this weekend and cried for two hours---me too!! I was trembling with anger. and i sat down and wrote about it, why do i feel more more empathy for animals than humans?
The sad fact is that most zoos are really pathetic. go to the staten island zoo and have a look at a tiger. it will haunt you forever. For my part, i do not want my children to get their idea about wild animals from a zoo. as a child i read books, watched beautiful documentaries on PBS, visited a couple of sanctuaries and hoped and still hope for the day when i can really see an elephant in the wild, with all their dignity and splendor in tact. not milling about lonely and bored on saw sawdust covered pathetic patch of space at my local zoo. Out of all the animals kept at zoos, the elephants always seem to have it the worst in my opinion. I refused to go to a circus as a child. No one had to tell me that it was wrong. it just appalled me to see majestic creatures humiliated. How does that make a child appreciate them for what they really are? a bear standing on its hind legs performing tricks. I had such a blow-up with my mom and brother about this. Everyone always says "yes it's awful when animals are abused and mishandled, but the zoo is great for kids!! the circus is fun for kids!! it's been around forever!!"
So what? why not change our values then. And still if my little nephew begged me to take him to the bronx zoo i'd be loathe to refuse him. I'd take him and try to teach him what i know...
I am very disappointed with the last 2 bites connected to animal abuse. The I-killed-a-dog race is beyond horrific; and then to claim visiting zoos will help conservation is utterly ridiculous. In fact, zoos capture vital resources that are diverted to them rather than toward positive efforts. Zoos are outdated - such confinement of animals has got to stop, so DON'T VISIT - EDUCATE OTHERS ABOUT THE PLIGHT OF ZOO ANIMALS Visit: bornfree.org.uk/campaigns/zoocheck
I've taught in inner-city schools, juvenile detention centers, and also in the fanciest of private schools... All kids, but especially kids who have to live with more struggles, are prone to empathy and compassion when made aware of the truths behind anything...
There are amazing sanctuaries all over the country that welcome classes. The students not only learn about the animals living in their natural habitats, but they learn the truth about how and why the animal is living there... and gain a much greater appreciation for the animal and the sanctuary.
An excellent place to visit is the Farm Sanctuary (which also offers in-school "Cultivating Compassion" presentations if you're in the NYC area) Visit: www.FarmSanctuary.org.
There are lots of amazing sanctuaries & incredible resources for teaching... www.teachkind.org for example. Going to a zoo doesn't teach kids anything. They sell hotdogs, ice cream & leather souvenirs right along side live animals... who will be ripped from that "habitat" when they need to bring in a new baby.
Actually, by sponsoring animals at various US sanctuaries and a chimpanzee at http://www.ida-africa.org/, my students have learned more about animals than any weekend trip to the zoo with their parents.
I'm glad the bite is getting such a good reaction. Maybe the writers can do a bite on alternatives to zoos, fishing trips, pet stores, circuses with animal performers, dissection, etc...
Zoos function for profit. Plain and simple, our money is better spent preserving wild habitat and wild animals rather than importing, breeding, and selling animals for a profit. Zoos are merely another example of our exploitation of every other non-human living being on earth.
For those that think that we appreciate wild animals more when we see them behind bars - forget about it. Our appreciation for animals in zoos stops where our need for entertainment ends. And NO animal has anything close to a "wild" type of existence in a zoo.
Furthermore, that zoos actually contribute to the endangered species population is merely a myth. One would be surprised to know about the exorbitant amount of surplus animals coming out of zoos and entering the black market.
We should teach our children about the values inherent in all living beings, and attempt to provide a place for them on this planet - that doesn't include cages.
We need more Sanctuaries.
We need less zoos.
I'm unsubscribing as well.
OOOOH I have an idea! (waves hand enthusiatically) Let's just change the name of the site. Not "Ideal Bite" , which seems to convince people perfection is attainable...howbout "NonPerfect But Trying To Open Up As Many People To As Many Suggestions As Possible Knowing That Some Of Them Are Gonna Have A Fit And Just Start Name-calling If It Doesn't Agree With Their Views Bite. com" ?
Sorry , LISA, the voice of moderation, not Lois..
Yes! Morgan! IF your nephew wants to go, take him, educate him as to what is wrong, why the animals indeed belong where they are born...act like a good parent...People, your kids ARE (for example of Bad Stuff) gonna watch TV...are you gonna just froth at the mouth, or are you gonna sit down with them, watch a little WITH them and explain WHAT is wrong and WHY it is wrong..?
Non-zoo folks, there is already so much poaching and killing, zoos are the only place some species are retaining anything near a gene pool. You are RIGHT, for gods' sake, it is a horrible solution. Come up with a better one, send your money, volunteer your time, don't waste your energy on old ladies. Put your time and your money where your mouth is and I will respect you.
Yes!! up Ideal Bite readers, they`re educating the writers!!
Anne Barr
The Biter team has a lot of power to influence a lot of people. With that power comes responsibility. A tip can't be thrown out there carelessly. If there's any doubt, STOP, consult a few experts (there's no shortage!), and then post a tip.
It's a lot harder to retract than to publish. In the interest of educating those who have not read today's blog, I strongly encourage Ideal Bite to send a retraction tomorrow, rather than a new tip.
The only thing I ever learned at a zoo when I was a kid was that hippos eat peanuts, snakes never move, and elephants are boring.
Consider:
Accredited zoos participate in something called Species Survival Plans. SSPs ensure not only the continuation of species, but the genetic diversity. I was proud to participate in a SSP for red-ruffed lemurs. Newsflash: The zoo may soon be the ONLY place you will be able to see a red-ruffed lemur. If we could magically create new habitate for them in Madagascar, the genetically diverse "zoo-breds" could be reintroduced. You would be shocked to know the amount of work and care and passion that goes on behind the scenes to ensure the survival of species!
Consider:
Animals in the wild DO NOT skip about wily-nily. Most live within defined areas and follow daily patterns (deer crossings!) They contend with predation, draught, injury etc. Zoo animals are actively cared for. If an un-curable illness befalls them, euthenasia is the most graceful of exits.
Consider:
What looks to be a small enclosure to your eyes most likely has designed within it many things to stimulate natural behaviour (entertainment, for lack of a better term) for the animal. When you see an animal pacing or excessively engaging in a repeatetive behaviour, the enclosure isn't well designed. Visit a better zoo.
Consider:
The old-fashioned "bathroom cage" zoos are NOT accredited. Animals die off quicky in such conditions and there is NOT an endless stream coming from the wild anymore. Zoos cannot afford to mis-handle their charges.
Consider:
Why do you love the great beasts? Did you go to a zoo when you were young? Isn't there something different between looking a great ape in the eye vs. seeing one on television? What if you parents could never afford to take you on a safari, should you never see an elephant? Admit it, your passion for the wild was built, in part, on a zoo experience.
Consider all this before engaging in knee jerk lambasting. If you insist on such a black/white view of zoos I hope you...
Don't eat a single animal product
Don't WEAR a single animal product
Visit people in jail
Care your aging parents in your home
Invite the homeless into to your home
Know how to describe to a child what a lions roar feels like. And, for the record, lions don't roar out of frustration.
Sad news today for elephants at the L.A. Zoo. Here is an article from Last Chance for Animals.
The Los Angeles Zoo announced today that they are sending Ruby, the African elephant, to a sanctuary. However, the zoo has not bothered to announce that the plan for the new exhibit is to house as many as eight elephants; making the new $39 million exhibit smaller in comparison to the old exhibit.
Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa was on hand to make sure he didn't miss the photo opportunity and to pat himself on the back for the zoo's decision, but was no where to be seen last year as this very same topic was up for vote in the City Council. Villaraigosa was also not on hand when Gita, the zoo's Asian female, died at an early age last year. In fact, despite the Mayor's numerous statements that "a zoo is not an appropriate place for an animal as large as an elephant," he wasted no time praising the zoo's $39 million proposed elephant exhibit that will be outdated even before construction is complete.
While some see the zoo's announcement as the end of a long fight for the elephants at the L.A. Zoo, Last Chance for Animals, a non-profit animal rights organization in Los Angeles, cautions the public not to celebrate.
"This is the darkest day for elephants in captivity. One elephant has been moved out, but at least 8 more will be moving in once the new exhibit is completed. This is not a success story; elephants should not be in captivity, period!" stated LCA President Chris DeRose. "The L.A. Zoo exhibit should be closed down permanently so no more elephants have to suffer and die there. We cannot lose our focus - the fight isn't about the welfare of one elephant, it is about the rights of all elephants in captivity."
Last Chance for Animals warns Ruby's departure will set a dangerous precedent: zoos will view sanctuaries as a way to get their "surplus" and "problem" elephants
off their hands while continuing to breed more elephants, instead of realizing that zoos are the problem - the small spaces, the concrete floors and the unnatural social groupings are slowing driving the elephants insane while their feet and bodies deteriorate before our eyes.
"I want to make this clear; LCA is committed for the rights of all elephants, not just the welfare of one. We wanted to see Ruby and Billy move out of the zoo as much as anyone, maybe more (we've been fighting for this for almost 20 years), but the focus should remain to close the elephant exhibit once and for all. Today's move is nothing more than clearing out old inventory to make room for the new," stated DeRose.
For more information:
http://fightback4elephants.com/
I'm disappointed. I thought for sure you'd rethink your tips after yesterday. But I've thought that a couple other times too. I'm beginning to wonder...
I, too, am heavily disappointed at this latest "tip".
Very educational:
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=lincoln
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=maggie_alaska
What can we learn about wild animals by watching them in confinement
You need to rethink your tips next time.
Right now, the sole reason I'm even staying subscribed is to see if you apologize for recommending an animal abuse tip. Otherwise, I simply will unsubscribe and tell everyone I recommended to do the same. Considering I only have vegan animal rights activists friends, though, they probably already did.
Actually LWillis, I WOULD rather see a great ape on TV rather than look one in the eye if despair is all I'd see looking back. Get real.
As many others have stated, without a retraction tomorrow my subscription is over too.
Thanks to all who are speaking up against zoos, it's nice to see how many others care.
I too am hoping for a retraction of this idotic tip. If it doesn't happen, I will also RETRACT my recommendation of idealbite to everyone I know, including every message board that I visit frequently. The only reason I didn't unsubscribe after the foolish urban mushing tip is that I would rather be part of the solution, than run from the problem. If we animal lovers isolate ourselves and reject people for their ignorance, then we aren't doing anything to bring about positive change.
To the blogger who thinks we all need some things to "consider"...
Just because my parents were ignorant enough to take me to the zoo when I was a kid, does not make me a hypocrite now that I despise zoos. Just because I have looked a miserable "great ape" with a broken spirit in the eye through a plexiglass wall of the oxymoronic APE HOUSE does not mean that I should subject my child to the same MISEDUCATION.
For the record, I too am vegan, but I wasn't always vegan. There are plenty of people who wear leather boots and know the difference between eating chicken eggs and yanking a Polar Bear from the only place on the planet created for his kind, and forcing him to live against his nature in a concrete courtyard.
The zoo can be a scary place for children. Maybe that is part of the thrill - like a cheap funhouse at the carnival. Even as a child I remember thinking, "this is wrong. This is unnatural. Lions are scary. They don't belong here. I don't belong this close to them. They should want to eat me." My passion for the wild was NOT created by zoos, but rather stifled and delayed by them. I have a 3&1/2 year old animal activist because he is taught, age-appropriately, the truth about animals. Not that they are meant to be captured, breed, broken, and confined.
I was at a playgroup with my 3 year old last year. We were playing with small animal toys. One parent asked, "where does the elephant live, kids?" Of all the kids who answered, my son was the only child to proclaim, "In Africa!" Guess what the others said? "AT THE ZOO!" Yikes.
If anything good has come out of this bite, it is the several good pro-wildlife links posted by some intelligent and compassionate bloggers. Too bad Ideal bite couldn't come up with anything useful here.
Please, Ideal bite, stop promoting the abuse and exploitation of animals.
quote:
For the record, I too am vegan, but I wasn’t always vegan. There are plenty of people who wear leather boots and know the difference between eating chicken eggs and yanking a Polar Bear from the only place on the planet created for his kind, and forcing him to live against his nature in a concrete courtyard.
So killing an animal for food or it's skin is fine but caging it isn't? (Err.. him... I guess sexist language is okay but 'speciest' thinking is not okay.)
Zoos have widely varying practices and you can't unilaterally say they participate in animal abuse.
I find it very disturbing that some posters empathize with animal suffering but not human suffering. That sounds discriminatory against Homo sapiens to me.
"We're sorry to see you go, and we want to wish you continued success on your path to align your daily decisions with your personal values."
This is what I read when I went to unsubscribe. The questions now is, is Ideal Bite just a front for business-as-usual capitalism with a pretty green front or are you guys going to start to live up to the excellent and caring standards of your readers?
Anne Barr
Ideal Biters -- what's with you?
I have been extolling you to my list of 15,000 (I work in PR) for Months now, have you on main page of my site, and push sign ups to you CONSTANTLY - and now you go and promote the ZOO?!? Do you know who your readers are? We are animal advocates! We have loved you because we thought you were too..
Do you know what the zoo is? Hell for animals. Animals suffer from more than neglect in some zoos. Rose-Tu, an elephant at the Oregon Zoo, suffered "176 gashes and cuts" inflicted by a zoo handler using a bullhook. Another elephant, Sissy, was beaten with an ax handle at the El Paso Zoo. Twiggs and Jeffrey, two giraffes born at the Cape May County Zoo in New Jersey, ended up being sold to a traveling circus. The director of the Cape May County Zoo admitted to seeing the animals' pitiful living conditions in the circus but reportedly did not have a problem with it.A chimpanzee named Edith was born at the Saint Louis Zoo. Just after her third birthday, she was taken from her family and shuffled around to at least five different facilities, finally landing at a Texas roadside zoo. During an undercover investigation at this poorly run zoo, PETA found Edith in a filthy, barren concrete pit. She was hairless and had been living on rotten produce and dog food. Some zoos even sell animals for slaughter. At the Minnesota Zoo, about 130 animals from its petting zoo, including goats, calves, pigs, and sheep, are sold to an auction house for slaughter each year. I have plenty more information if you'd like it.
I'm afraid, unless you send out some sort of ammendment email that I'm going to have advise the 20,000+++ in my network to remove themselves from the Ideal Bite family. It's such a shame - because so much of what you send out is so helpful and wonderful. But this email was shocking - like getting an email about Shrimp and Lobster from the Orthodox Jewish Grandfather -- completely incongruous. I've gotten at least 15 emails from my list members who had signed up on Ideal Bite.com through me complaining about how I could promote you after this mornings email.
Please advise.
Chloé Jo Berman
NYC, NY
Yup, there's no amendment note in the latest bite. I refuse to give it any longer because complaint comments have been going on since a few minutes when the Bite was set out. Good-bye, Not-So-Ideal-For-Animals Bite.
Yep, no retraction, I'm gone.
Adios, Ideal Bite
Emma-- Human cruelty is caused by humans. Animal cruelty is caused by humans. Who *should* I feel sorry for?
I hoped the Ideal Bite team would be mature enough to admit when they're in the wrong, and set things right with their readers. Apparently, I was mistaken.
I'm outta here, and my endorsement is gone. Word of mouth brought this site to life. It can do the opposite, too.
Absolutely... I didn't unsubscribe just because I was sincerely hoping for a retraction today... It's so dissapointing to see no action taken. We would have stuck with you guys if you stood up to your uneducated, irresponsible "tip."
I also have a newsletter that goes out to several thousand folks and I always have listed the Ideal Bite as one of my personal favorites. I am embarrassed to know that so many folks signed up because of my recommendation and saw that yesterday, something so out of line with anything I'd advocate. Now I will be spreading the word otherwise.
Not only am I totally embarrassed that I recommended this to my friends - I am completely SHOCKED that Ideal Bite wouldn't be worried about the amount of folks who will no longer support them. I am utterly in awe that they are cocky and uncaring enough to not make mention of the uproar that this zoo email has caused. It's really disgusting.
I am amazed and delighted at the passionate responses of the Ideal-ist readers who don't Bite any old crap the writers chuck out. I am afraid that the non-response of the writers to so many caring and feelingful letters from their audience, shows that this really is just a well-disguised advertising agency, a very commercial set-up that uses peoples sincere desires to change our planet to a more liveable place, in order to SELL. Oh dear, may we all take warning once again about falling victims to pretty Greenwash.
Unfortunately for the advertising team, the readers are not as superficial in their Ideals as the writers. Indeed the Ideals the writers purport to support have turned around and Bit them!! Congratulations to all you heartfelt sincere green people out there. There might be hope for the planet yet!
Not too happy to get a pro-zoo email from ideal bite in my inbox today. For many species, a captive environment is just wrong. It causes illness, injuries, shorter life spans, emotional problems, etc. Recently the Phila. Zoo, local for me, finally decided to discontinue its elephant exhibit and send the elephants away -- one to a sanctuary, the others unfortunately to another zoo. Yes, its nice to see exotic animals up close, but not at the expense of their welfare and their independence.
Anne-
Your Conspiracy Theory paranoia and condemnation of the site are creating less hope for the planet than a tip about zoos. I believe the Ideal Bite team truly cares about bettering the world we live in AND the environment. Their INTENTION is what is important, not a single tip. What's wrong with throwing a risky subject out there to stimulate a healthy debate? It is important to keep the bigger picture in mind. Everyone that has posted on this subject shares a vision of a healthy planet with the Ideal Bite team. Spreading words that divide people who share this vision only slows the progress we are making in bettering our world.
I'm so supremely disappointed that the Ideal Bite staff haven't even attempted to respond to dozens of conscientious comments.
I sang your praises for months, Ideal Bite. I promoted your service through the non-profit I work for that teaches people about eco-friendly, humane living. I can't possibly have zoo promoters on that list.
Years from now, our children and their children will look back at zoos and ask, "how could such cruel and unnecessary institutions ever have existed?" And it's a shame that a group such as Ideal Bite whose mission is to empowr people to protect the earth and its inhabitants won't be among those who spoke out against them. Rather you'll have spoken out in support.
On the day that Ruby the elephant is being retired to a sanctuary, I ask you to please, please send out an alert promoting humane education programs, preserves, and sanctuaries as an alternative to zoos. You've already alienated the people on the list who consider themselves advocates for animals. This is your chance to speak up for those who have no voice.
Register now and get your kids outside with Thorne Natural Science School Summer 2007! We have classes for kids ages 3 - 15. TNSS Connects Kids to Nature by providing full and half day, week-long summer classes. Learning takes place through hands-on, science-based, experiential activities as children explore local prairie grasslands, evergreen forests, wetland habitats, and other local ecosystems. TNSS operates in Boulder and Littleton, Colorado, and New this summer - TNSS Sheridan, Wyoming!!! For more information visit www.thorne-eco.org, or e-mail info@thorne-eco.org for a catalog. Happy explorations!
Steve,
You speak in favor of sparking healthy debate, and against using words that divide, yet when somebody contributes to the debate in opposition to your view, you resort to calling them a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
Your hypocrisy is exposed, as is the hypocrisy of the authors of Ideal Bite.
This tip took me by surprise. I spent many years in opposition to zoos and circuses and couldn't imagine how Ideal Bite found this favorable.
It may be arguable that zoos offer children an opportunity to commune with and observe nature, but I don't think zoos are the only, and certainly not the best, approach.
All animals, particularly wild animals, require a certain level of appreciation and respect, which is hard to understand when you can stand unnaturally close to them while sipping soda and eating ice cream. City children will learn best about animals on field trips to nature parks where they might, if they are mindful and cautious, come across an animal in it's natural habitat. It's important for children to understand caution as part of their education about animals.
There are better ways to commune with nature without encouraging a false sense of security with wildlife.
I did a double take after I opened the email from you this afternoon. Is that really a bite about ZOOs???!!! I was delighted to see 60 other biters moved to comment! I am starting to worry about you all over in the biter think tank. I would love it if you blogged with us and addressed some of the concerns of all the heartfelt animal lovers. By ignoring us it make me feel like you don't give of crap. I too have sung your praises to anyone that would listen but I am afraid that the Zoo bite is the last straw. Are you just a clever way to sell sell sell to greeners that have their eyes shut to what your site is really all about? I know that one way to get the green message across is with our pocketbooks BUT I really wanted more from the tips! Please convince me that I wasn't wrong to tell my friends to join the bite club.
All you drama kings and queens who are opposed to this tip, and blowing things way out of proportion "Get Over Yourselves"! Your threats to unsubscribe are so ridiculously miniscule! Ideal Bite will still be around and doing just fine!
First of all, why don't we take a look at how many genetics would now not exist if it weren't for zoos, how much money and interest and appreciation for nature would not have been generated, etc.? It's true that many zoos, esp. the older or more poorly funded ones don't provide the ideal home for animals..but nor does my cramped little house or cramped little desk provide my ideal habitat. Does it mean I should never have been born? Because many animals, esp. large predators, cannot now exist outside of zoos. Also, zoos take many animals who have been injured or raised illegally in captivity by private parties and can never return to the wild and survive. We need to be realistic with our idealisms, here. And we should also recognize the very costly and thoughtful steps many zoos are taking toward providing AWESOME habitats that allow extrememly endangered species to be bred and released, to learn natural hunting habits and to even exist in exhibits where they have no view of humans at all (using special glass, cameras, etc.) Many zoos are working hard to move away from the bars and concrete era of zoos and have become great supporters of wildlife needs both inside and outside of their walls. For this reason I support my local (philadephia) zoo, and go there on pleasant days to view the animals. Some days their habitats are so lush and sheltering that I don't even SEE them if they don't want me to. I'd say that's a pretty decent habitat : I know zoos still have far to go..but so do we all, and let's not throw the babe away with the bathwater when it comes to zoos..they have lots to offer to us and to animals and habitat, and all we can do is encourage them to continue their very positive progress so far.
When someone passionately believes that a zoo is a prison and the thought of such animal cruelty sickens them, I don't think it is in, what I thought was, the spirit of we biters, to call them drama queens and kings.
Clarissa,
Your comment:
"many zoos, esp. the older or more poorly funded ones don’t provide the ideal home for animals..but nor does my cramped little house or cramped little desk provide my ideal habitat. Does it mean I should never have been born?"
PLEASE!!! How ridiculous! You have free will to modify/plan to modify/move/start over...whatever! YOU HAVE THE CHOICE TO MAKE CHANGE IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY. ZOO ANIMALS DO NOT HAVE THAT CHOICE because we've selfishly imprisoned them and removed their free will. Why is this concept so hard for pro-zoo folks to understand?
And how does your cramped home/desk and whether or not you should have ever been born even enter into this? Utter nonsense.
Your other comment:
"many animals, esp. large predators, cannot now exist outside of zoos"
Again, whose fault is that? SELFISH HUMANS, not the animals. We are the ones destroying everything this beautiful planet has to offer. When will we finally stop thinking it's right to subject nature's amazing animals to lives of despair instead of working on the real problem - US.
I just reread the comments posted. It seems a lot of the frustration stems from the feeling of not being heard. It is my opinion that there should be an upcoming bite that would address the concerns of some of your biters . It could include: alt. to zoos and ways that we could help the exsisting zoos be a more livable place.
Hi Steve,
To deduce that the Biter team are a very pale shade of green, and more interested in selling than caring, well there you are, I accuse them thusly until they have the decency to reply to over 60 worried and upset bloggers, many of whom represent dozens more people, in one case even thousands more people. That hardly makes me a conspiracy theorist.
However, that said, I am now much more interested in , and as I wrote before, DELIGHTED about the responses so far.
And I am sure at least one or two of the Biter team must be thinking hard.....
By the way these are my credentials, for the blogger who said we have to be saints in order to criticise:
Vegan
I visit prisons regularly
Have grown most of my own food most of my life
Have made several dozens of tons of compost
Never buy new clothes (even organic cotton)
Make my own handcreams etc
Helped buy and save thousands of hectars of rainforest in Colombia.
Google Green Letters from Colombia by Jenny James, or Atlantis community Colombia if you want to read about any of it.
Love to all you great people
Anne
Phillip - Child abuse disgusts me, genocide disgusts me, animal cruelty disgusts me too. Cruelty is cruelty and the unchosen suffering of a human should digust you just as much as the unchosen suffering of an animal.
You call any zoo environment from enriched environments designed for animals who otherwise might no longer exist on the plant or for former exotic pets to bare cages animal abuse and yet you dismiss human cruelty.
I'd rather be a ring-tailed lemur in an enriched environment than a severely abused child.
The larger issues with animal conservation are a whole lot more than zoos. I am completely against poaching, but poaching is small compared to the overall impact of habitat destruction, global warming, etc.
Let's remember... the original tip included suggestions for those against zoos. Not all Idealbite readers have the same opinions on zoos.
Anne-
You're right, "Conspiracy Theorist" is too strong- my apologies.
My belief is that we can improve our environmental situation dramatically by promoting retailers, manufacturers and the like that produce sustainable non-toxic products to replace the garbage that is out there now. The more people out there that are doing something, anything, to spread the word about green living the better, and they could be encouraged for their efforts. My point was that all of the "unsubcribing" taking place (not to mention the general dismissal of the Ideal Bite because of a single tip) is a step in the wrong direction. Do I disagree with zoos? Yes. Am I going to hurl monkey poo at the biters and stop spreading the word about them? No.
When we started this business, we debated over whether or not to have a blog. Obviously – for a new business (especially in such a contentious field as this green one) – a blog opens a company up to a heady level of criticism in a continually public forum. That’s a scary prospect, by and large, for any business. But in the end, we knew that backing each day’s tip with a blog was just the right thing to do. We wanted for people to have a place to express their views, to share ideas and articles, to discuss the day’s tip. And truthfully, we wanted your feedback to us (which often came in directed emails instead of blog comments) to have airing in a public forum, whether they were positive or negative toward the day’s tip - or, indeed, to Ideal Bite as a whole. The debate is healthy, and it was more important to us that it happen in plain sight than that we control it carefully. In the same way that we applaud companies that throw open their doors and show us where they are trying and where they are failing on their green paths, we wanted to give that same level of transparency to you.
So all in all, we want to applaud each of you Biters for being so engaged, and for jumping into such passionate discussion.
When this tip came up in the editorial calendar, we debated internally at length. We were divided as to whether or not to publish the tip at all, knowing that it was a fiercely polarizing topic (and one that would potentially upset several readers). The animal rights concerns surrounding the tip are valid, and gave us pause. But in the end, we decided to publish the tip, and we stand by it. We don’t stand by it because we are ignorant of the problems inherent in many zoos, or, indeed, of the issues surrounding zoo culture and animal capture. We stand by it, because – in the end – the fight we here at Ideal Bite have chosen to fight (to get everyday people to take the steps we need to take to stop our ongoing race toward climate catastrophe) relies on an ongoing education about, and understanding and appreciation of, nature. And for the majority of us here at the Bite, zoos facilitated in that process in our education as children. Somehow, we all got here, to a place where we spend all our days thinking of ways to turn the tide of climate change and help each person to make a small step.
Whether for or against the tip, we truly do welcome all your comments, and can’t begin to tell you how much we respect this debate you have all undertaken in this public forum. Whether you decide to continue as a subscriber or not, we appreciate each and every move you make - and are continuing to make - toward a better, greener world. And we will continue to applaud you, your efforts, and your fierce passions on your path to greenness.
Sincerely,
The Ideal Bite Staff
Finally - a response.
Your reason still seems weak. Why not address the issue of your not recommending animal sanctuaries. Applauding the debate while at the same time dancing your way around the issue just proves your ignorance.
How about tomorrow you recommend people get in touch with nature by going to cut down some old growth forest? Or building a housing complex in the middle of Yellowstone?
That statement reads like it was written by lawyers. Very corporate. Congratulations, Greenwashers!
I have to admit, the word "applaud" was a bit overused, leaving one feeling a bit chided. (Rousing memories of the way Dubya laughed at the first anti-war protest in Sept 2001, and when asked for his response to the rally replied through a snarky grin, "I think it's good that people exercise their rights to freedom of speech. They can protest all they like. We're going to war.")
But for all the demanding we collectively seemed to do folks, at least Ideal Bite heard our concerns and made a concerted effort to put together a well thought out response.
Are you guys kidding with this?!?!?! This just in: Zoos say--zoos are great!
Yes, some zoos are well run. There is a very broad mix, though. Most do not meet the physical and mental needs of animals in their care. Only now are a few ceasing to acquire elephants, acknowledging that they never have met their needs.
How about independent research? Or, how about getting someone from an organization with some expertise on some animals to weigh in on animal posts?
I don't know your total readership, or what percentage are upset by this tip (I know of a handful who were upset but did not post). It does seem like it's inconsistent with what many people expect from a service purporting to further greener lifestyles.
I could never have imagined a lamer, more half-assed response. wow. i am stunned. Sounds uncannily like the kind of ducking, generic, "thank you for your concern and we are trying to address such issues, but we are grateful for the input" response you get when you write an angry letter to a cosmetics company that tests on animals for instance. Or is it just me? (dons puzzled expression)
Dear Ideal Bite team,
I am beginning to feel sorry for you! But I still feel more supportive of all the caring people whose ire ye have aroused, not to mention the poor animals imprisoned in the zoos.
I am also deeply amazed at your lack of real response ands even more deeply supportive of the readers who didn't bite the medicore response ye did put out. Well, I suppose we all have to chalk it up to living and learning.
I certainly learnt a lot from the genuine caring of your readers, and maybe you've learnt that being green isn't just about using politically correct hand-lotion. Not that I am putting down nice natural handlotions....
Anyway good luck to all of us, and once again thank you to all you heartfelt people out there, it was good to 'meet' you all.
A.
What a stupid business move to not retract that dumb zoo/ circus blast.
Alas - you have officially been removed from my list and website and myspace page. A loss of approximately 20,000 unique views per Month.
Go watch EARTHLINGS http://www.isawearthlings.com/ and tell me you don't regret blasting that email out.
Ideal Bite Staff:
This is my understanding of your statement to your biters: Zoos’ benefits outweigh the harms to society and, most importantly, the harms to the animals that they imprison. Because you had a positive experience viewing animal at zoos, we, as a society, should continue to inflict harm on these animals, and refrain from using the resources poured into zoos on conservation efforts. All of this in order for a small number of people to enjoy their experiences at zoos and feel what you call “connected” to nature. I am so disappointed in you and your website. Zoos imprison animals. No matter what some parties might say, they DO NOT conserve endangered species, they DO NOT connect people to nature, and they DO NOT provide adequate “habitats” for animals.
1) Zoos imprison animals. How can one justify the imprisonment of any animal in a cage for our viewing pleasure? What gives us the right to rip an animal out of its home, or away from its mother, or breed it, so we humans can pay to watch it behind glass? If you felt that as children you gained something from watching animals behind bars in a zoo, and want your children to experience the same, you should take the responsibility to STOP this abhorrent cruelty and take YOUR children to a sanctuary, or visit a wildlife refuge, etc.
2) Zoos do not conserve endangered species. In fact, they often inflict harm upon them. Yes, endangered species are STILL being illegally brought into the U.S. for zoos. And yes, thousands of endangered species end up on the black market (for the exotic pet trade) every year after they are dumped as surplus from zoos. Some of those animals end up in game parks where they are hunted for sport. The exotic pet trade would probably not exist if not for zoos. For every one endangered species that may be eventually introduced to the wild (highly unlikely) there are hundreds that live and die their entire lives behind glass or in someone’s backyard. How can one argue that money is better spent on zoos rather than preserving wild habitat? I highly recommend Animal Underworld: Inside America’s Black Market for Rare and Exotic Species for more on this topic.
3) Zoos do not connect us to nature. This is obvious on its face. Zoos connect us to a cage made of concrete and misery. I would argue that zoos only reinforce the belief in our society that animals have no inherent value of their own, and are only here to provide us pleasure or other benefits to the human race. I loved the example from the biter whose son was the only child in a group of many that actually knew where lions came from to further illustrate this point.
4) Zoos harm animals. Several of your biters gave great links to animal cruelty in zoos. Elephants are a great example of this. (http://www.helpelephants.com/) I live in Oregon, and at the Oregon Zoo, three elephants have died in the last 9 years or so, LONG before their natural life expectancy (and these elephants were wild caught). Several lawsuits have been filed against the zoo for bullhook abuse inflicted on the elephants. Most elephants die in captivity from foot root, because they don’t have enough space to adequately exercise their legs. Every so often, a piece of dead flesh is cut from the elephant’s foot. Once the foot is too damaged, is nearly ground down to the bone, and the elephant is inflicted with so much arthritis and other pain that medication can no longer sustain the elephant, it is put to sleep. How is this justifiable? Do you know where dolphins in zoos/marine parks come from? Oftentimes, they are “extras” sold for profit after Japan is finished slaughtering the rest of their families. Check it out: http://www.idausa.org/campaigns.html According to you, Ideal Bite Staff, this pain and suffering is worth it so you can feel “connected” to these animals. What do you think the animals would say to you, if they could speak, about this?
My hope in writing this is not that you will issue an actual rescission of your comment, because I am going to unsubscribe after writing this. Instead, I hope that you will rethink your philosophy on zoos, and on the intrinsic value of animals generally. You have the ability to influence a lot of people. I hope in the future you choose to use that influence more wisely.
Just had to write and say thank you to Monica.
Anne
Here's a link that may be of interest to some of you:
How Green is Your Elephant?
http://activerain.com/blogsview/57303/How-Green-Is-YOUR
The site recommended above is written by the people who have an interest in maintaining their zoo, it's likely better than other zoos, but have you ever watched a caged animal pace, or listened to a caged birds cries or watched it's desperation to get out into the skies? I'm beginning to think people visit zoos with their eyes and ears and hearts closed.
What is this immense blindness?
I've been reading a lot of the reports of animal cruelty in zoos posted by other biters and I've been impressed by the amount of thoughtfulness in these comments. I don't think anyone here wants to promote animal cruelty. The thing which separates pro-zoo people from anti-zoo people is not a lack of sentiment but perhaps a huge gap in the experiences of each. I have seen terrible zoos, it's true. These zoos I would never advocate or support. But I have seen very conscientious zoos, and ones that really rally to support habitat for wildlife and provide (to the very best of their budgets) really nurturing and well-designed habitats for their animals. Yes, it is the fault of humans that many wild animals cannot exist outside of zoos. It's a sad and horrific truth. But the plus side of zoos is that they raise awareness of these animals and they also keep the genetic pool alive for a time when we as humans will evolve to a point where we all can coexist. The point I want to make here is that conditions in this world are not ideal for humans or for animals. And what we can do is our best with what now exists while workign toward a better future.
An example -- the kitten I adopted whose mother was a stray. These days she is a pampered indoor cat..and while I know that she would love to lay and hunt in the grass outside, I know that the lawns int his area are chemically treated, that many outdoor cats
Posted by: Kate | March 12, 2007 at 06:14 AM